Take their power away!

It’s a bit late in the game, but I’ve finally made my choice- John Edwards is my candidate.

The straw that broke the camel’s back and made my decision was his response to Nataline Sarkysian tragedy. Nataline Sarkysian was the California teen who died after Cigna denied a necessary liver transplant- an all too common story in our “world class” health care system. Edwards’ response was:

“Are you telling me that we’re gonna sit at a table and negotiate with those people?” asked a visibly angered Edwards, challenging the health care companies. “We’re gonna take their power away and we’re not gonna have this kind of problem again.”

Damned straight.

However unresponsive and unrepresentative you might feel the federal government is, corporate government is even worse. Do you imagine we could, for example, replace the CEO of Cigna? Or United Health, or Microsoft, if we didn’t like how they were run? We can with Government (and if changing out the President doesn’t change anything, what good is supporting or even electing Ron Paul?).

What we need is for politicians to stop toadying up to the corporate powers, and start confronting them. Edwards is that politician.

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  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    Tell me — what are you going to do when the federal government decides you don’t need that necessary liver transplant, or waitlists you to death?

  • Brian

    Call your congressman, and call your senator. However unresponsive and distant the Federal Government is, corporations are even more so. You don’t get a vote for who is on the board of directors or the top level corporate officers of Cigna. Note that Cigna didn’t reverse it’s decision until it became a national scandal (and, arguably, until it was too late, so they wouldn’t have to pay for the transplant any ways). The sort of national level scandal that becomes an issue in Presidential races. It takes a much smaller scandal to rock a senatorial or congressional race.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    It takes a much smaller scandal to rock a senatorial or congressional race.
    Except that no one Congressman will be responsible for that decision. Welfare and social security are both careening into bad places, but no Senator or Representative is taking flack for those. Hell, nobody’s even really talking about them, at least partially for fear of taking flack for a failed attempt to improve the system (see “Medicare D”).

    The difference between businesses and the federal government is that US citizens can choose which business they care to be dealing with, but there’s one one federal government. If you socialize health care, you’re stuck with one and only one option. If that one option sucks, then too bad for you. This is an equivalent assertion to saying that citizens have the option of choice of insurance companies, which creates oversight and accountability that the federal government doesn’t have.

    I do agree that health insurance companies have too much power right now, and I see that coming from the messed up way the system works right now — either your employer provides you health insurance, or you pay an arm and a leg. Something there has to change, but socializing the care just doesn’t seem like the answer. A decentralized hybrid approach seems to be serving the Germans well, so I’d like to give that experiment a shot. Oh, and I’d like to see those experiments happening at the state level, not the federal level, so that we can have 50 different experiments going on — but that mainly comes from preferring to hedge my bets instead of having to have an all-or-nothing approach.

    I also support a universally available health insurance (for purely pro-business reasons), but I would rather see that done through supporting no-questions-asked-no-billing-done free clinics a la the Shriners Hospitals for Children.

  • Brian

    The problem with Medicare part D was that it wasn’t an attempt to reform the system, it was an attempt to loot the system. The amount medicine cost went up for the majority of medicare recipients, and the government had to pony up more money, so that the pharma companies could reap billions. Damned straight I’ll give a politician flack for voting for that piece of crap.

    And no, as a general rule you don’t get to choose which company you get health insurance from- your employeer does. This also assumes that there exists out there, some where, an insurance company that doesn’t suck. Watch “Sicko”- in addition to giving examples of the crimes of each major health insurance company, there’s one part where he actually plays the tape of H.R. Haldeman pitching HMOs to Nixon (this is when they were first being set up)- and his sales points are two fold: 1. they’re private for-profit corporations, and 2. they make more money by denying care. And it’s unclear (at least to me) which Nixon approves of more. But he’s sold. So it’s indisputable that the Republicans knew from the get-go that the system was corrupt. Of course, that’s the Republicans for you.

    Note that Edward’s plan is less radical than I am. Read it for yourself. You’re not going to be forced into a government program against your will. Rest easy- the millions that the insurance companies spent buying legislators and propoganda was money well spent, communist health care plans, like those supplied in totalitarian Germany, Japan, and France, aren’t going to happen here.

    As for the Shriner’s hospitals, who pays for them? The Shriners are doing an excellent job, make no mistake about that, but remember that there are only eighteen Shriner hospitals. Total. The closest one to me is in Philladelphia, for example. They’re doing good work, and I’m glad they exist, but no way is charity based health care capable of taking up the slack that corrupt, for-profit health care lets fall through the cracks already.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    At least in Germany, the state doesn’t own all the health care — it’s a decentralized hybrid system, where the state acts as a mediator and infrastructure, but insurance companies still exist and compete and different levels. It’s actually a plan I like, because you get the best of both worlds: you get the governmental oversight and enforcement of humane practices, and you get the free market’s competition.

    And I agree that charity-based health care can’t catch up to the whole system: the system has got to get reworked in order to remain tenable. I just don’t buy that the government taking over the role of health insurer and/or health provider is the way to solve that issue.

    I’ve got to go read up on Edward’s plan, because the last I heard from him, he was calling for socializing the whole system.

  • bhurt

    The problem I have with leaving the insurance companies in the loop at all at this point is that there is a continual push for deregulation. The evil government interfering with the free markets and destroying profits and ruining efficiency and all that bullshit. If it were me, the upper management of pretty much all the various health insurance companies would be up on multiple homicide counts each. But that’s not going to happen any more than Bush is going to be impeached, so there is no downside for them to push to return to the bad old ways we have now.

    And government-run health insurance does work- for example, in France and Japan. If Germany’s model can scale up the 3- or 4-fold to United States size, why not Frances? And it’s not like Germany provides significantly better health care than France or Japan does- so, other than to protect the profitability of corporations responsible for thousands of deaths, what other advantage does Germany’s plan bring?

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    Key to Germany’s approach is that 1) it’s decentralized, and 2) it still leverages the advantages of the free market. That maintains a lot of the efficiency and avoids the one-size-fits-all trap that governmental regulation brings on.

  • Brian

    If being decentralized and free market were good qualities, then the US system- being both more decentralized and more free market than either Germany’s or Frances- should be even better yet. No?

    Here’s an interesting presentation.

    Hmm. Interesting- as a percentage of GDP, Germany spends more on it’s health care system than France does (about 11.5% more)- not as much as the US, but more. Germany also spends more per capita (about 15% more). Germany’s health care costs are also increasing faster than France’s- heck, even faster than the US’s. And yet, the French live almost a full year longer than the Germans (1.4 years longer than US citizens), and have a significantly higher heart disease mortality rate than the French. Also note that on the public expenditure side, France’s administrative overhead is a mere 0.2%, compared to Germany’s 7.5%. And the administrative overheads for private insurance is comparable. France is higher, but not so high as to undo the super-low overhead of their public system. France’s average (pro-rata over both public and private expenditures) administrative overhead per dollar spent per capita is 44.15, while Germany’s is 174.05. Germany is paying 4 times as much, per capita, on administration than France is.

    The US, with our completely free market, decentralized system, pretty much sucks across the board.

    The evidence seems to indicate very stronly that the less free market, and the less decentralized the system is, the more efficient it is. At least for health care.

  • Brian

    This raises an interesting question- what’s different about health care compare to say, bananas? If a centralized, socialized health care system works so well, why not a centralized, socialized banana distribution system?

    The difference, I submit, is that it’s socially unacceptable for some people to go without healthcare- you can go without bananas occassionally with much less consequence. I picked bananas specifically, because I had to go without the banana I normally put on my morning cereal today. Life is tough all over, let me tell you. It was hell. Also, you have less fungible commodities. If you need a liver transplant in order to survive, being told “sorry, we’re all out of livers- how about a heart transplant instead?” doesn’t help. Using raisins instead of bananas as the fruit on my morning cereal isn’t that big of a hardship.

    The fuindamental precept of the free market is that some people have to do without, at least some of the time. The only way for all demand for a product or service to be filled is to have the price of that product or service drop to zero. Otherwise, supply and demand will force at least some demand out of the market. And if you think this doesn’t apply to food, think again. This is exactly what is happening here in the US. Welcome to the free market in action. I had to do without bananas- Nataline Sarkysian had to do without health care. It’s how the free market works. Some have to do without. In one case, I’m OK with the result. In the other, I’m not.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    That’s actually some interesting stats. What’s going on over in France that’s allowing them to pull off socialized health care? Elsewhere, it’s really been a travesty.

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  • Daniel Yokomizo

    The current US system isn’t based on a free market, because there’s government regulation on everything related to medicine (e.g. pharmaceutical patents, doctor’s certifications, the cost of malpractice litigation and its insurance) and the job market isn’t free either, so if the employer chooses the health insurance provider but you can’t “shop for jobs” there’s no incentive to employers to choose the best providers.

    Economic theories are usually right and work, but most economists think that what is true under a premise A is also valid when the premise is NOT A.

    There are two issues with health care that should be separated before a decent solution could emerge. There’s routine usage (e.g. check-up exams, common accidents and diseases), which happen frequently and have (relatively) low cost, and improbable events, which should be covered by insurance policies. Both issues have almost no intersection in usage, frequency, cost and risk, why should they share policy?

    While most can’t have the money to pay for rare events (e.g. being in a coma for weeks), they should be able to handle routine events and unusual but common events (e.g. heart conditions is pretty common these days). Also there’s the age issues, which should be handled separately.

    Sharing routine costs is bad because of unaccountability (i.e. it’s pretty much a variation of the tragedy of the commons), OTOH for rare events insurance works as it should. I don’t see why can’t we have more options for rare event insurance (e.g. from credit unions which are great usually), some sort of savings account for routine usage (e.g. pay as you use, save when you don’t) and a mixed insurance/investment account for unusual conditions (perhaps covering old age?) so you have smaller premiums and the option to use part of it when necessary.

    For the record, Brazil’s socialized health care (i.e. “saúde pública” or “public health”) sucks so much that almost every legal worker has a private health care provider (usually paid by the employer, a few like myself are self paid), these range from better than government support to really great insurance. The primary difference I see between US and Brazil private health insurance, is that here we don’t have an actual insurance: the health care provider must pay for every cost as long as you pay you monthly (fixed) bills, no matter what happens, if your plan covers the condition. There’s a fairly extensive mandatory set enforced by law, but health care providers can limit which hospitals and doctors are available to your plan (that’s where the difference lies). While the system isn’t optimal there aren’t much horror stories if you have private insurance. OTOH poor people are regularly screwed because the socialized system doesn’t work.

    Given how much do we pay on taxes, the per capita spent on health care is roughly the same one would pay on cheap private insurance, which would provide much better coverage than what the government provides. Actually this is the most important fact of health care: its true cost can’t be much different with either private or public funding. It’s the efficiency of spending that differs.

    P.S.: I’m believe in the free market, but I don’t delude myself in thinking that it works in the current state of affairs. For start we need true deregulation for it to work, but much more is needed.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    @Daniel

    Thanks for the interesting comment.

    One of the things that interests me is that you call for deregulation, but then cite one of the advantages being that insurance companies in Brazil pay for whatever’s wrong with you — how do those two things go hand-in-hand? American health insurance companies aren’t quite as bad as they’re made out to be in Sicko, but we still have an issue with “pre-existing conditions” and other loopholes that leave the insurees dangerously unprotected. There has been a major call to fix that through legislation (although none’s surfaced, to my knowledge) — how do you see the free market as fixing that problem? After all, no insurer actually wants these people, and if you start to allow pre-existing conditions to be covered, people will hold off to get insurance until they need it to pay out. So I’m curious how you see that working.

  • Daniel Yokomizo

    @Robert
    Actually companies don’t have to pay for pre-existing conditions either, at least not for the first X months, where X depends on the specific condition. OTOH if you’re already insured by company A for X months, company B accepts your pre-existing conditions. In practice though most doctors side with the patient if some pre-existing condition isn’t covered, saying it was just discovered. Usually the only situation where pre-existing conditions matter is on pregnancy and birth.

    This system works well in practice, people have a chance to have their issues covered and companies get X months paid before having to spend on that condition. Like I said, Brazil’s situation is far from perfect, but it contrasts the costs and efficiency of public and private health care funding.

    On regulation. I’m against it in principle, but we can’t call for deregulation before solving the inequalities it caused in the first place. The goal is to have a mostly deregulated market, but first we need some minimal form of regulation to reduce inequality. For example if it’s easy to start a health insurance business, people could do that in their communities, like credit unions vs. banks. If it’s cheap to become a doctor, medical practice will become cheaper, If we stop with malpractice civil litigation (it should be criminal offense or nothing IMO) there would be no industry to provide insurance against lawsuits. If we reduced the duration of patents (say, start with 10 bucks for a year and double the cost for every additional year) medicine would become cheaper. So these are areas where we can reduce regulation or make it more market friendly. More competition means more choice, if people aren’t happy with their choices they can start their business and fill the niche.

    It’s foolish to ask for a complete deregulation when things are unequal. First we need to create a transition plan to ensure things can work in a deregulated society. Fundamentally regulation stiffle business, but no regulation today would ensure chaos, because the means of production are concentrated on too few hands. It would be like tying one fighter up and then calling it a fair fight.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfischer Robert Fischer

    Some conversation relevant to this post (a Canadian on their health care system) is at
    Calling All non-US Readers.

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