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	<title>Comments on: Functional Programming, Typing, and Closures</title>
	<atom:link href="http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/</link>
	<description>programming, politics, &#38; other religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:16:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bhurt-aw</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/#comment-33784</link>
		<dc:creator>bhurt-aw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/?p=797#comment-33784</guid>
		<description>So God is a tuple- presumably with type &#039;a * &#039;b * &#039;c?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So God is a tuple- presumably with type &#8216;a * &#8216;b * &#8216;c?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Fischer</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/#comment-33780</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/?p=797#comment-33780</guid>
		<description>Wherever two or three are gathered with implied static typing, I am there.

And here&#039;s the definition for you -- a &quot;tweet-up&quot; is when a bunch of people on Twitter decide to all go do something, largely because of the hype about it on Twitter.  The &quot;de facto&quot; part comes from the fact that nobody&#039;s actually &lt;em&gt;called&lt;/em&gt; it a tweet-up or acknowledged that it&#039;s going on, but the effect is happening anyway.

In short: the tiny pool of people that are both F# junkies and Twitter junkies seem to be descending on Code Mash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wherever two or three are gathered with implied static typing, I am there.</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s the definition for you &#8212; a &#8220;tweet-up&#8221; is when a bunch of people on Twitter decide to all go do something, largely because of the hype about it on Twitter.  The &#8220;de facto&#8221; part comes from the fact that nobody&#8217;s actually <em>called</em> it a tweet-up or acknowledged that it&#8217;s going on, but the effect is happening anyway.</p>
<p>In short: the tiny pool of people that are both F# junkies and Twitter junkies seem to be descending on Code Mash.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hamlet D\'Arcy</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/#comment-33779</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamlet D\'Arcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/?p=797#comment-33779</guid>
		<description>I am proud to say that I have absolutely no idea what a &quot;de facto tweet-up&quot; is. Code Camp (free, Twin Cities, 11 October 2008) has several F# related topics. Too bad you&#039;re not here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am proud to say that I have absolutely no idea what a &#8220;de facto tweet-up&#8221; is. Code Camp (free, Twin Cities, 11 October 2008) has several F# related topics. Too bad you&#8217;re not here.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Fischer</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/#comment-33778</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/?p=797#comment-33778</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve often said -- and I think it might even be on the video of the Ruby.MN presentation -- that I&#039;m astounded by people that do complicated functional programming in a purely dynamically typed language (e.g. Archaeoptryx).  They simply have got to be smarter and/or much more patient than me, because I lose track and become so frustrated if I have to make changes: I always forget a spot I&#039;m calling that function, and the bastard explodes at me.  And then I fix it, and run my tests again, and it explodes on me a little bit further down in a slightly different way.  And that&#039;s the &lt;em&gt;good&lt;/em&gt; scenario.

Jesse said that typoes and method missing exceptions weren&#039;t a big problem in his life.  For him, more power to him, and I totally see why a dynamically typed language is attractive.  But they&#039;re a big problem in my life, so I need the crutch.

And if that makes me stupid, so be it.

BTW, Hamlet, there&#039;s a de facto tweet-up forming at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.codemash.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CodeMash&lt;/a&gt; for F# people.  I&#039;m going to be part of that shindig, since you&#039;ve sold me on F# and my frustrations with OCaml&#039;s build system have outweighed my adoration of the language.  Hope you can make it, too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve often said &#8212; and I think it might even be on the video of the Ruby.MN presentation &#8212; that I&#8217;m astounded by people that do complicated functional programming in a purely dynamically typed language (e.g. Archaeoptryx).  They simply have got to be smarter and/or much more patient than me, because I lose track and become so frustrated if I have to make changes: I always forget a spot I&#8217;m calling that function, and the bastard explodes at me.  And then I fix it, and run my tests again, and it explodes on me a little bit further down in a slightly different way.  And that&#8217;s the <em>good</em> scenario.</p>
<p>Jesse said that typoes and method missing exceptions weren&#8217;t a big problem in his life.  For him, more power to him, and I totally see why a dynamically typed language is attractive.  But they&#8217;re a big problem in my life, so I need the crutch.</p>
<p>And if that makes me stupid, so be it.</p>
<p>BTW, Hamlet, there&#8217;s a de facto tweet-up forming at <a href="http://www.codemash.org/" rel="nofollow">CodeMash</a> for F# people.  I&#8217;m going to be part of that shindig, since you&#8217;ve sold me on F# and my frustrations with OCaml&#8217;s build system have outweighed my adoration of the language.  Hope you can make it, too!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hamlet D\'Arcy</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/functional-programming-typing-and-closures/#comment-33777</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamlet D\'Arcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/?p=797#comment-33777</guid>
		<description>This thought is as old as (at least) the mid &#039;80s... when the &quot;Real Programmers&quot; essay was seen on rec.humor, containing this gem: Real Programmers don&#039;t write in PASCAL, or BLISS, or ADA, or any of those pinko computer science languages. Strong typing is for people with weak memories.

So, yes, I agree that keeping all the types in your head can become tricky. If you&#039;re writing a library in some language, then isn&#039;t needing to reason about variable capture, garbage collection, and closure implementation on the underlying platform a sign that your language isn&#039;t abstracted far enough away from the machine? I believe _good_ static types let you create more and more abstract entities, letting you code your most general ideas while hiding the details for you behind a compiler. Good dynamic typing let&#039;s you jet past the productivity of those stuck with bad static typing (ie Rails vs Struts), but I suspect good dynamic typing might not approach good static typing (in some areas) for your reasons here. 

Just a thought. There are of course no real answers to the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thought is as old as (at least) the mid &#8217;80s&#8230; when the &#8220;Real Programmers&#8221; essay was seen on rec.humor, containing this gem: Real Programmers don&#8217;t write in PASCAL, or BLISS, or ADA, or any of those pinko computer science languages. Strong typing is for people with weak memories.</p>
<p>So, yes, I agree that keeping all the types in your head can become tricky. If you&#8217;re writing a library in some language, then isn&#8217;t needing to reason about variable capture, garbage collection, and closure implementation on the underlying platform a sign that your language isn&#8217;t abstracted far enough away from the machine? I believe _good_ static types let you create more and more abstract entities, letting you code your most general ideas while hiding the details for you behind a compiler. Good dynamic typing let&#8217;s you jet past the productivity of those stuck with bad static typing (ie Rails vs Struts), but I suspect good dynamic typing might not approach good static typing (in some areas) for your reasons here. </p>
<p>Just a thought. There are of course no real answers to the debate.</p>
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