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	<title>Comments on: No Such Thing as a Moderate Republican, Part II</title>
	<atom:link href="http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2006/03/11/no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-republican-part-ii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2006/03/11/no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-republican-part-ii/</link>
	<description>Robert Fischer and Brian Hurt on Punditry, Programming Languages, and Other Religious Issues</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bhurt-aw</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2006/03/11/no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-republican-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>bhurt-aw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/archive/2006/03/11/117#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Whatyou miss is that historically, Democrats are much more willing to hold fellow Democrats accountable than Republicans are Republicans.  The problem isn't that a crime has been committed- crimes have always and will always be committed- the problem is that the crimes are not being &lt;em&gt;punished&lt;/em&gt;.  When, for example, several Democratic legislators took bribes and became the Keating Five, the &lt;em&gt;Democratic&lt;/em&gt; congress censured and punished the &lt;em&gt;Democratic&lt;/em&gt; congressmen who were guilty.  And notice how many Democrats signed on to the impeachment of Bill Clinton- even when the charges are obviously bullshit, Democrats are much more willing to punish their own.

Crime pays a heck of a lot better when crimes are not punished.  This is how you get the culture of corruption.  That and when the leadership is committing the crimes.  There is a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.

The other factor you're forgetting to include is the increasing power of the netroots.  At this point, there are basically two power centers in the Democratic party- the Washington insiders, and the netroots.  At the moment, the insiders have the advantage, but that's changing.  And the netroots has no patience for corruption- because if you're corrupt, by definition you're not listening to the majority of your constitutents, which means you're not listening to the netroots, which means the netroots are not happy with you.  Take a long, hard look at how the netroots is treating Joe Lieberman, or Hillary Clinton.  Any sort of major change will simply further empower the netroots- moving power out of the federal goverment, not to the states, but to the &lt;em&gt;individuals&lt;/em&gt;.  This is another major check on corruption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatyou miss is that historically, Democrats are much more willing to hold fellow Democrats accountable than Republicans are Republicans.  The problem isn&#8217;t that a crime has been committed- crimes have always and will always be committed- the problem is that the crimes are not being <em>punished</em>.  When, for example, several Democratic legislators took bribes and became the Keating Five, the <em>Democratic</em> congress censured and punished the <em>Democratic</em> congressmen who were guilty.  And notice how many Democrats signed on to the impeachment of Bill Clinton- even when the charges are obviously bullshit, Democrats are much more willing to punish their own.</p>
<p>Crime pays a heck of a lot better when crimes are not punished.  This is how you get the culture of corruption.  That and when the leadership is committing the crimes.  There is a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.</p>
<p>The other factor you&#8217;re forgetting to include is the increasing power of the netroots.  At this point, there are basically two power centers in the Democratic party- the Washington insiders, and the netroots.  At the moment, the insiders have the advantage, but that&#8217;s changing.  And the netroots has no patience for corruption- because if you&#8217;re corrupt, by definition you&#8217;re not listening to the majority of your constitutents, which means you&#8217;re not listening to the netroots, which means the netroots are not happy with you.  Take a long, hard look at how the netroots is treating Joe Lieberman, or Hillary Clinton.  Any sort of major change will simply further empower the netroots- moving power out of the federal goverment, not to the states, but to the <em>individuals</em>.  This is another major check on corruption.</p>
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		<title>By: Candide</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2006/03/11/no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-republican-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Candide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/archive/2006/03/11/117#comment-237</guid>
		<description>No party believes in small party or states-rights or small government or civil liberties anymore.  The minority party will always make noise in support of that (the Democrats are doing it now, the Republicans will do it when they get whooped).

Now, the problem is that while Republicans might make noise about repealing it is that they may not &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; the power to do it.  I have zero faith that most Democrats will somehow restrain themselves while the Republicans won't.    So I now expect incredible and borderline insane capabilities to be par for the course for the executive -- neither *party* is going to want to step down from that kind of power while they have it, and I don't trust them to look beyond that point.

We might, if we're lucky, get some more oversight via the legislative branch if we get a split legislative and executive...but I think the Republicans are managing to self-destruct enough.

This disaster -- the entire situation we're currently in -- is because of the sick world of two-party politics and "party loyalty".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No party believes in small party or states-rights or small government or civil liberties anymore.  The minority party will always make noise in support of that (the Democrats are doing it now, the Republicans will do it when they get whooped).</p>
<p>Now, the problem is that while Republicans might make noise about repealing it is that they may not <em>have</em> the power to do it.  I have zero faith that most Democrats will somehow restrain themselves while the Republicans won&#8217;t.    So I now expect incredible and borderline insane capabilities to be par for the course for the executive &#8212; neither *party* is going to want to step down from that kind of power while they have it, and I don&#8217;t trust them to look beyond that point.</p>
<p>We might, if we&#8217;re lucky, get some more oversight via the legislative branch if we get a split legislative and executive&#8230;but I think the Republicans are managing to self-destruct enough.</p>
<p>This disaster &#8212; the entire situation we&#8217;re currently in &#8212; is because of the sick world of two-party politics and &#8220;party loyalty&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: bhurt-aw</title>
		<link>http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2006/03/11/no-such-thing-as-a-moderate-republican-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>bhurt-aw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/archive/2006/03/11/117#comment-236</guid>
		<description>I predict, should we get (for example) President Hillary in three years, that suddenly the Republicans will discover their small goverment pro-civil rights side again.  At which point, FISA- which I comment is too restrictive for Bush- will suddenly become to permissive for Clinton.  There will be a sudden huge push to repeal all this crap should a Democrat win in '08.

You're naive if you haven't figured out by now this is about power.  Small goverment states-rights civil liberties are about restricting the power of liberals.  For conservatives, there is not limit to the power they desire.  You have a legitimate philosophy (one I basically share)- you don't want &lt;em&gt;either&lt;/em&gt; party having this sort of power.  What you have to realize is that most Republicans simply don't want &lt;em&gt;Democrats&lt;/em&gt; having this sort of power.

Note, the push to prevent Hillary (or whomever) from getting this sort of power will be aided and abetted by the liberals.  Including me- I don't want Hillary to have this sort of power.  I sure as hell don't want Lieberman or Biden to have it.  I think a Dean or a Clark would be honest enough (like Carter) to not use it- at which point they don't need it either.  The liberals will join the push because we don't any President to have this power.  The conservatives will simply be pushing to make sure Democrats don't.  How do I know this?  Because the conservatives aren't pushing &lt;em&gt;right now&lt;/em&gt; to take this power away from Bush.

Remember this when a Democrat wins and Conservatives "find their ideology again".  Stop beleiving the bastards.  Take a long hard look at everyone.  Take a look at the stands that the conservative blogs are taking.  If they're still supporting Bush, at this point, they don't really beleive in small goverment and civil liberties, not for Republicans anyways.  If they are turning on Bush, then they have some principal.  Take a look at the conservative talking heads on TV.  Take a long hard look at the conservative politicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I predict, should we get (for example) President Hillary in three years, that suddenly the Republicans will discover their small goverment pro-civil rights side again.  At which point, FISA- which I comment is too restrictive for Bush- will suddenly become to permissive for Clinton.  There will be a sudden huge push to repeal all this crap should a Democrat win in &#8216;08.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re naive if you haven&#8217;t figured out by now this is about power.  Small goverment states-rights civil liberties are about restricting the power of liberals.  For conservatives, there is not limit to the power they desire.  You have a legitimate philosophy (one I basically share)- you don&#8217;t want <em>either</em> party having this sort of power.  What you have to realize is that most Republicans simply don&#8217;t want <em>Democrats</em> having this sort of power.</p>
<p>Note, the push to prevent Hillary (or whomever) from getting this sort of power will be aided and abetted by the liberals.  Including me- I don&#8217;t want Hillary to have this sort of power.  I sure as hell don&#8217;t want Lieberman or Biden to have it.  I think a Dean or a Clark would be honest enough (like Carter) to not use it- at which point they don&#8217;t need it either.  The liberals will join the push because we don&#8217;t any President to have this power.  The conservatives will simply be pushing to make sure Democrats don&#8217;t.  How do I know this?  Because the conservatives aren&#8217;t pushing <em>right now</em> to take this power away from Bush.</p>
<p>Remember this when a Democrat wins and Conservatives &#8220;find their ideology again&#8221;.  Stop beleiving the bastards.  Take a long hard look at everyone.  Take a look at the stands that the conservative blogs are taking.  If they&#8217;re still supporting Bush, at this point, they don&#8217;t really beleive in small goverment and civil liberties, not for Republicans anyways.  If they are turning on Bush, then they have some principal.  Take a look at the conservative talking heads on TV.  Take a long hard look at the conservative politicians.</p>
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